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Name: Linda | Gender: Female | Posts: 147 | Roses: 10
Old 10-09-2014 at 03:33 PM
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Christine's dreams, aspirations, feelings  Post [1]


Of all of the Christine's I have seen, I like Leroux's version best. She seems to be the most independent and is fairly level-headed for the most part. What I find really interesting about her is how far the reader will go to give her a break. For instance, Raoul. The poor guy gets blamed for a lot of things, including taking her away from Erik. But did he take her away from Erik? Did she really ever belong to Erik in the first place? Was Erik really her dream of romance? Would she have ever been strong enough to be a wife to him?

Christine is credited with almost saint-like qualities in my opinion. Yet, of all of the characters it's she who has the most appalling (I think) reaction to Erik's face. He's described as very ugly but everyone except Christine can deal with it. She reacts in pure horror. After that, she lies to him, admitting that to Raoul. This is interesting in view of the fact that Erik himself declares her an honest girl. Little did he know.

She's often cruel to Raoul (play engagement, anyone?) and doesn't mind showing it. Did she really even want to marry him? Did she love him? And what about the 'play engagement?' Was that even a solution to anything or did it just exacerbate the entire situation?

And what about her talent? It's obvious she is talented and has been so since a young child. She goes to the observatory and ends up being Carlotta's stand-in. But when she reaches the pinnacle of her talent, she ends up fainting. Then we never hear of her even trying to repeat her outstanding operatic performance. Was it her goal to become a great singer or was that something Erik pushed her into? And if it wasn't her goal, what was?

What about the Angel of Music? I like Leroux's Christine most of all because I felt she didn't believe Erik was the Angel of Music but simply gave in because Valerius suggested it. On the other hand, what does that say about Christine that she's willing to do something so strange like that? Were the singing lessons really worth it? There are a thousand other things about her character that could be discussed here. I thought I'd throw this out there to see what everyone thought.
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Name: Chiara | Gender: a young lady | Age: 20 | Posts: 103 | Roses: 10
Old 10-09-2014 at 05:00 PM
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I think that is a a very interesting post.

Personally, I also like Leroux' Christine the best.

I don't think Raoul has taken her away from Erik. Even though he wanted to. Erik wanted her to choose him - because he loved her and he also wanted her to love him. Raoul loved her and knew she loved him, but he also thought she wasn't able to choose. Anways, in the end Christine chose Raoul - Erik did let her go and Raoul was satisfied. All of them were. But after all, it was Christine's own choice. She knew that. Erik knew that, too. I doubt Raoul knew it. But I don't know :/ As I've stated before: Raoul only wanted the best for Christine - but he was absolutely full of the idea that he was the only person who knew what was the best for her. But he was wrong about that. Because Christine knew that well.

I don't think Christine is viewed as a saint. Not at all. The book is mainly from Raoul's, but also from Erik's point of view. And both of them loved her - of course, they thought and talked well about her. Most people in the opera didn't seem to like her. Carlotta was jealous, the managers were suspicious, Philippe didn't think well of her either and she didn't even seem to have any friends there, even though she appeared to be very nice to everyone. I think that's mostly because of her background - she had a very unusual upbringing and she appeared to be a rather eccentric person, compared to a usual Victorian girl. I don't think Christine was perfect, but I still think she was a very good and loving person.

I don't think she dealt less good with Erik's deformity than the other people. It's just that everyone else when talkng about the Phantom knew about his apperance. Christine was curious about what her angel (who turned out to be a man, after all) would look like - and was deeply shocked in that moment. I don't think that's big fault in her character, I rather think it was because of the whole situation. The superstitious ballet rats dealt with it in another way.

I don't think the engangement game was meant in a cruel way. She simply wanted to be with him - but without Erik being angry. Also, I think she knew how much Raoul underestimated her and she wanted to show him her kind of "thoughness". Or whatever.

Christine is obviously very talented. ANd I think she loved what she did. She just lost her passion, because of the loss of her father.

I think she really believed in the Angel of Music. It's because of her unusual upbringing. As I've said before, Christine wasn't your average Victorian girl. She was different. She was unworldly, quite liberated and unconventional, slightly eccentric, living in a dream world. She was different. And I think singing indeed was her goal.


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Name: Linda | Gender: Female | Posts: 147 | Roses: 10
Old 10-12-2014 at 07:30 PM
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 Post [3]


Thank you, Flattering Child, for the compliment. I was reading through your post and wanted to talk about something you brought up. You said Raoul thought he was the only person who knew what was best for Christine but he was wrong because Christine knew what was best for her as well. I really don't think Christine knew what was best for her because a lot of the decisions she makes end up badly.

She hears what she describes as an adorable voice. She tries to find out who it is, just like anyone. But Erik doesn't respond. Christine tells Mama Valerius, who says it's the Angel of Music. So what does Christine do? She asks if it is the Angel of Music to which Erik replies it is.

I think there are all kinds of red flags here and I don't see how it would have been in her best interests first of all to know who the voice belonged to, and secondly, to go with it belonging to the Angel of Music.
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Old 10-13-2014 at 12:35 AM
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Of course, she made wrong decisions. So did Raoul, by the way. And every other human being, may it be fictional or real.

What I mean is, that Christine is able to make decisions on her own and is able to know what to do with her life without Raoul. She doesn't need him to think and choose for her, even though he thought so.


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Name: Linda | Gender: Female | Posts: 147 | Roses: 10
Old 10-13-2014 at 12:57 AM
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I knew poor Raoul would get drug into this somehow. I'm not really sure why you thought I was talking about him. I wasn't.

That aside, what decisions do you see Christine making that prove she knows what's best for herself? I don't mean decisions like going to the conservatory or getting her own apartment. I'm talking about during the course of the story that give you the impression she knows what's best for herself?
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Name: Chiara | Gender: a young lady | Age: 20 | Posts: 103 | Roses: 10
Old 10-13-2014 at 03:13 PM
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 Post [6]


I didn't think you've talked about him I talked about him ;)

That's not what I meant. I just think Raoul doesn't always know what's best for Christine. And she did everything right in the end when she had the first and last thing to choose. Before that she was dragged in various siatuations which made her unable to choose correctly. But I don't think her decisions were as badly as most of Raoul's were. But I was talking about her private life, because I was talking about her relationship to Raoul. Raoul wanted to decide everything for Christine. He wanted to be kind of a guardian for her (except that Christine was of age, unlike him... at least in my copy Raoul's twenty and Christine above twenty one (people were of age at age 21 back then), but the ages variy, I know...) And Christine was in the most difficult situation. It was simple for Erik - he was hated by everyone but he was madly in love with Christine and wanted her to choose him. It was simle for Raoul - he was loved by everyone (except Erik) but was madly in love with Christine and wanted to own her (because he thought it was his right. whatever.) Christine liked Raoul, had some slight romantic interest him, maybe even sibling like love which might turn out to be more. She also had mixed feelings for Erik which she couldn't understand rightly. It was very difficult for her. In the end she made a hard decision, saved everyone, kind of made a well ending with Erik and went with Raoul to live "happily ever after". It all made sense. Okay, I wouldn't have done the last part. But from a 19th century point of view even THAT makes sense.

As for Raoul. He always was weaker than Christine. He grew up pampered, she grew up wildly, it's pretty obvious that he was a spoiled child, which even looked like a girl, while Christine was more of a rough little tomboy. But Raoul thought he had something like a right for owning her, because they knew each other as children. Or because he was a man and she was a woman. Or for whatever reason, Raoul was absolutely confident about the "fact" that HE was the one to decide EVERYTHING for Christine. He had no confidence in her at all.


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Name: Linda | Gender: Female | Posts: 147 | Roses: 10
Old 10-13-2014 at 04:38 PM
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 Post [7]


How about we leave Raoul out of this as far as whether he's the weaker character or not. He really has nothing to do with Christine's dreams or aspirations. If you want to bring him up there is a topic for him under character discussion.

ETA: I want to elaborate on the above paragraph. Maybe you see Raoul as weak because Christine likes to boss him around. In short, she's a control freak. That I would consider in line with this topic and if you want to discuss it, I think that's great.

So, back to my question on Christine. What decisions do you see her making that prove she knows what's best for herself? What about the character do you see that convinces you she knows what's best for herself?
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