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Name: Linda | Gender: Female | Posts: 147 | Roses: 10
Old 11-04-2014 at 01:57 PM
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 Post [11]


All he says is he believed she put out her forehead a little so he could kiss it. It sounds to me like he didn't put his hands on her at all, he just kissed her forehead.

But even if he did grab her to kiss her, touching her with his hands was not important to him. If we're to believe him that is. Kissing her was because that's all he spoke of, how great it was to kiss someone on the forehead. He says it himself. He kissed her and she did not die. He does not say he kissed AND held her and she did not die.

Either he believed his kiss could kill or he didn't. If he didn't, then his statement to Daroga was a lie. It could have been sarcasm. In short, he's saying he's just like everyone else. Or maybe it was something else. Daroga starts the conversation by accusing Erik of murder. Perhaps Erik wanted to distract him.
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Name: Chiara | Gender: a young lady | Age: 20 | Posts: 103 | Roses: 10
Old 11-04-2014 at 08:31 PM
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 Post [12]


I never talked about touching her with his hands o.O

Why? It was NOT a lie. He said she did not die. And she did not die. It would have been a lie if she'd have died. He didn't even say his kiss could kill. He only said she didn't die. He didn't even say he was surprised about it - even though he suggested it.

I interprete it that way: His kiss was the first time he "really" touched her, in his views. He didn't count the other times. But - having always been rejected until then - he worried how Christine would react on such a thing. He thought she might even die - but she simply let him kiss her. And he was not only lucky, but also relieved. He considered her steady reaction, the fact that she didn't die or faint or scream (of course, because he loved the drama, so he used the first term, even though I assume he expected it the least, which doesn't mean he didn't expect it) the greatest act of love towards him. The greatest act of love he has ever received.

It's also my favourite part in the book, I have to admit that.


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Name: Linda | Gender: Female | Posts: 147 | Roses: 10
Old 11-05-2014 at 01:58 PM
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 Post [13]


I believe the only times Christine rejected his touch was when he used the chloroform because of the smell of death. He would have had to have touched her to help her into his carriage, give her his arm when walking about the lake, giving her his ring, etc. There's no other indication that Christine had to make herself steady in order to accept his touch. It seems once the smell of death and the memory of it no longer remained, she was fine with being touched by him, even after seeing his face.

He tells Daroga he kissed Christine and she didn't die, not that he touched her, really touched her for the very first time. He says he kissed her. There's nothing pointing to this being a lie, nothing stating he was exaggerating, and nothing to indicate he was trying to change the subject of the Count's death.

The only other explanation I can see is that he believed his kiss would kill Christine. He sincerely and truly believed it, just like he believed he was made of death from head to toe.
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Old 02-23-2015 at 08:39 PM
Whenasecretfalls
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 Post [14]


I don't think his kiss could kill.
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Name: Linda | Gender: Female | Posts: 147 | Roses: 10
Old 03-01-2015 at 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whenasecretfalls View Post
I don't think his kiss could kill.
Yes, but that wasn't the question. I asked if Erik really believed his kiss could kill.
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Old 11-13-2017 at 08:56 AM
Rosoideae
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 Post [16]


I don't think that the matter is meant to be taken biologically. I view it as symbolic of Erik's chagrin. He is so isolated that he has resorted to referring to himself as metaphorical poison. That is the only way that Erik can justify how he has always been treated. He gets a sense of control from blaming himself for his trouble with society because blaming others would, in a way, make him feel like a greater failure.
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Name: Kitty | Gender: female | Posts: 1 | Roses: 10
Old 01-17-2018 at 10:31 PM
KittyLydia
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 Post [17]


This is a really interesting discussion :) When I first read it, I always assumed Erik thought the shock of his kiss would cause Christine to swoon. Not kill, per se, but look as though dead. Perhaps there was a time in his past when he kissed someone, they fainted, and he was off and away before he saw them recover. Or, the death is a metaphorical one -- the kiss leading to the person hating him, and so that 'love' has perished.

I tried looking up such a wedding custom, but couldn't find anything specific about kissing on the forehead. Though, what seems to be a big theme in Victorian weddings is manners. There were apparently a ton of books published during the era about wedding etiquette (I'm hoping to find some extracts for these, this is something I really want to research). The main things being polite, showing restraint, so perhaps a groom kissing his bride upon the forehead is another form of showing restraint?
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Name: Mary | Gender: female | Posts: 19 | Roses: 10
Old 01-21-2018 at 05:48 PM
MarySkater
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 Post [18]


When Christine turned the scorpion, that signalled that she agreed to marry Erik, and in return he flooded the gunpowder so that the explosion would not be set off. Erik believed that she would go through with the marriage ceremony, then kill herself, and he accepted that bargain.

But turning the scorpion still left the two men drowning in the torture chamber. Christine had to make a further bargain to save their lives. This is how Erik described the scene to the Daroga afterwards (Ribiere translation):

Quote:
'But as you were both screaming for your lives because of the rising water, Christine came to me. She looked at me with those beautiful blue eyes, and swore to me, as God was her witness, that we would live as man and wife! Until then, in the depths of those eyes, all I had seen was the promise of death; it was the first time I saw the promise of life. She was sincere. She would not kill herself.'
After rescuing the two men from the flood, Erik took the Daroga home, and locked up Raoul in the dungeon as a hostage. Then he went back to Christine, and that was when he kissed her forehead, and she appeared to accept the kiss. I think that not until then did he really believe that she would live with him. It was not so much that he thought his kiss would kill her, but that she would not want to live. He could of course prevent her physically from committing suicide he had done so before but I think he believed she could will herself to die, if forced into marriage with him.

As for the forehead kiss, I think that was a measure of Erik's timidity in a totally unforeseen situation. I don't think he had ever imagined himself kissing her on the lips not while she lived, anyway.
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