The Phantom's Opera

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PhantomChristine85 01-14-2014 12:13 AM

Anyone else notice.....
Anyone else notice, that even though Christine always goes with Raoul in the end in the book, musical, and movie, it's the Phantom and Christine, who are ALWAYS portrayed as the true lovers, in the sequels written by other authors, and pretty much in general?:angel1::love:

Taedium_Vitae 01-14-2014 09:24 AM

Yes, that's quite true. I think it's simply because they are so perfect togheter... I mean they are the essence of passion, romantism, music... In Susan Kay's book, their relation is so perfectly describe with all the passion, the need, the eroticism, the fear, the attraction... what kind of girl could resist all these temptations personnifeid by a single man! Personnaly I can't resist! :crazy2::flame::Eyecrazy:
There's a tirade where Christine explains how her simple love for Raoul seems so inadequate compare to the fire of Erik's passion.
And frankly, I think they are more interesting than a Raoul/Christine pairing! No offense mean to Raoul's fan

Nightingale 09-18-2014 07:38 AM

Just had this discussion earlier today (ok, it's past midnight, so yesterday... details details)

Raoul's love is the easy choice.

Erik's, however, requires rising to the challenge. By Christine following that path it demonstrates a deeper understanding of the essence of love and shows maturity on her part.

I am absolutely and positively a subscriber that Erik got her heart in the end.

Designated Driver 09-20-2014 06:39 AM


Originally Posted by Nightingale (Post 140652)

Raoul's love is the easy choice.

If Christine was really this weak to simply choose love because it was easy, that doesn't say much for her character, does it?

Nightingale 09-20-2014 06:50 AM

But the fact remains that she doesn't really choose Raoul ... remember, she embraces Erik and HE releases her to Raoul.

It's deliciously maddeningly complex.

Designated Driver 09-20-2014 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by Nightingale (Post 140658)
But the fact remains that she doesn't really choose Raoul ... remember, she embraces Erik and HE releases her to Raoul.

It's deliciously maddeningly complex.

I was thinking of Leroux here and don't recall Christine embracing Erik. In Leroux's story, Erik forces Christine to choose him or he'll create the ultimate destruction by blasting a good portion of Paris away. In my mind that's not a true choice based upon love. Christine chose him because she was forced to.

Erik releases Christine to Raoul, this is true. But he also makes the statement that he knows she "loves the boy".

Nightingale 09-20-2014 05:27 PM

I'll admit, I have not reread Leroux's as recently as Kay's and hers left a more dramatic impression upon me.

I did, however, reach back over my shoulder and grabbed my copy of Leroux's (I have the books out for reference purposes at the moment ... and really wish I could read French and had the original wording as I know translations muddle things). I guess in her actions--specifically how she is described in response to Raoul's 'sleeping/drugged' form upon the sofa doesn't read so much as her having truly chosen him. If she was 'acting' when Erik leaves the room there was a good time for her to show concern, if she loved Raoul THAT deeply she would be taking every chance to go to him ... and yet mysteriously there is no reaction that the Persian notes at all. It is like Raoul is not even there. Later, in Erik's tearful description of what had transpired, it did read to me as though she had indeed embraced Erik (in a way). Her actions, the expressions described in her eyes (granted, yes, I realize this is description coming from an unreliable narrator in a fit of melancholy ... but it is what Leroux gives us, which means it is left to some interpretation as to what really occurred.)

In my mind I guess I always saw her veering throughout the book towards Erik; unconscious actions, clips and phrases, even some of her discussions with Raoul seemed to reveal there was a earnest connection that she was troubled to identify/acknowledge. Something that extended beyond the revelation of what her Angel truly was. Let's face it, sometimes having feelings towards someone (even in the mundane sense) can be intimidating, especially for someone who is on the shier side.

Now, I admit, that is what I see in the words penned well over a century ago in another language with radically different rules of etiquette. It is my interpretation.

witch 09-20-2014 05:29 PM

I have noted this but you have to remember it's called THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA not the happy couple from the opera.

In saying this having been writing here for years now I must say it's the drama and twists that are the most fun to write. With Mark and Cara I never knew which side I was going to get....Erik or Raoul.

Designated Driver 09-20-2014 05:35 PM

But there's still the issue of Erik's own words...."I know you love the boy".
Why say such a thing? And if Christine loved Erik as deeply as you say, why not simply deny Erik's statement? Why go to Raoul and kiss him? Why run off with him where no one can find them?

I don't think it can be summed up so easily that Raoul's was the easy love so that's why Christine took it. To say so demeans her and makes her a weakling. She stood her ground with Erik and refused to marry him until he made the situation so unbearable the only thing she could do was marry him.

Nightingale 09-20-2014 05:40 PM

LOL! Nice, Witch! I love it, 'happy couple of the opera'!

Here's the trick, though... it's really not that at all. Even with Christine embracing Erik as the interpretation it isn't a happy ending because of how it ends ... the love in essence is what we are told is killing him. (probably not the reality, but again, we have a rather unreliable narrator at that point) which creates that dramatic question of what happened.

Had Leroux wanted to be 100% clear he could have had the tale end with Christine and Raoul chatting away ... instead, we have the Persian's description from Erik. At that point for Erik I don't think keeping Christine with him would have resulted in a happy ending, or even could have for that matter. Where he is mentally and emotionally I don't think things would have settled down into domestic bliss ... as much my own heart longs for them to be together.

But that is another story.

07:11 PM

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